My friend and podcast co-host Vixen Divine discuss the topic of childhood bullying.
In this episode, we discuss:
Real women, Real talk!
My friend and podcast co-host Vixen Divine discuss the topic of childhood bullying.
In this episode, we discuss:
Real women, Real talk!
Welcome to episode 15 of the Light Her Project Podcast. Real women. With real talk. I'm Rachel Strella. And I'm Vixen Divine. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Today's discussion is all about bullying. This is a very pervasive topic and we're actually gonna break it into two episodes. So today we're gonna focus on bullying children. And our next episode will feature adult bullying, which is very much alive and real. In both episodes, we'll also touch on the topic of online bullying, which is very much prevalent today. So. Yes. Let's get started. We'd like to start our episodes with personal experiences. So, you know, talking about bullying in our childhood from our perspective. So I can recall a few instances of bullying growing up. The first one, I was very young. I don't know what you call that. Older than a toddler, but not an adolescent. I was probably around three or four. Okay. And I lived in this neighborhood where all these older girls were all hanging out. And I was a couple of years younger. Well, like they would put sand in my mouth, from the sandbox and they wouldn't let me leave to go home until I swallowed it. I remember coming home and choking because I had swallowed so much sand and that was just one of maybe 10 different things they would do just because they could. In junior high, I got picked on a lot. I didn't have a lot of money and so I didn't have the nicest clothes. You know, like most people wore Nikes. They had Jansport backpacks, all that stuff. I had like whatever the Walmart brand was. So I got picked on a lot, teased a lot. And one thing I remember in high school, I was in the Honor Society and every year they had a Christmas show. So I was actually supposed to play one of the teachers. during that Christmas show. And I rehearsed my lines and I was ready to roll. And the day of the show, I went to the auditorium for the rehearsal and I was told that someone else was playing the role. Apparently there was a meeting earlier in the week and because I didn't attend, they replaced me. No one made me aware of any meeting. So, obviously I've had a lot of different experiences throughout childhood. Okay, I don't have a whole lot, but I have one in particular. I had more than one, but this one in particular really does stand out to me. I remember I was in elementary school, and I think I was in about the third grade, and my parents got called to the school. And you know, when the parents get called to the school, you know, you usually, oh, that's, you did something wrong. But I couldn't figure out what I did wrong. I was like, ugh. You know, I knew they were coming, but I didn't know what the meeting was about. I didn't have anything obvious that I had done that I'm like, oh crap, I'm in trouble now, you know. So the parents get to the school, find out that they want to move me to another school because basically I was in a general elementary school, the one that was closest to my house, but they wanted to move me to an accelerated elementary school, which you think is a good thing, but it really is not. I mean at the school, you know, you learn to play an instrument you learned different languages and so on so forth cause they just I was just too smart for this school. They just thought it'd be wasted for me. So I go to this new school. It's in the middle of the year mind you so I'm the new kid, right? Well, I was bullied but it was by the teacher. The teacher yelled at me. She scared me so bad I literally would skip school. Like I'd hide in the bathroom. I would not go to class. I was so scared of this teacher. Seriously. Now I'm this little kid and teacher full grown up, you know? And I'm in a new school. I don't really have any friends because I'm in a new school. And I was just this teacher. I don't remember her name. She was an Asian woman and the school was Ben Franklin and she was awful. She was absolutely awful. And my parents had never yelled at me like that before. I was a good kid, like you said, I was, you know, on a roll, good, you know, no problems, but it was awful. It was absolutely awful. So my experiences with actually peers was a lot better than actually teachers. Hmm. Yeah. My parents eventually found out, because I was too scared to tell anybody. This is a teacher, right? Right, right. So my parents eventually found out and all that, but it was terrible. It wasn't. It was, you know, she's what, three times my size, at least. I had a similar situation happen to me in first grade like that. So I understand that it's so complex because when you're a child, you don't really understand. You know, why, why you've been treated this way or how to respond to it. You feel like you did something wrong. Right, and it's complicated because as a kid, then you're always taught to tell the teacher, right? You know, tell the grown-up, right? So what do you do when it is the teacher, when it is the grown-up? Great question. No, yeah, I don't think we empower enough for that but. Well, let's go into some questions. The first question today is what would you do if you were the parent of a bully? Wow, so the way I grew up and you can probably relate to this Vixen, you get your butt kicked if you were picking on other people or bullying and your parents found out, you know, so That was a no brainer growing up, but in my case, I guess, you know, I think about the way that bullies get their power and they make others feel inferior. So I think my first instinct would be to find out what is emotionally lacking from the child that they feel they need to bully others. You know, and that's not an easy thing to figure out because kids, they act out for a lot of different reasons. I think being aware of the fact the child is a bully is a first step. And I imagine some parents are surprised or probably even in disbelief when they discover their child is a bully. I think it just takes a certain level of emotional intelligence to navigate that properly. But I think it would really depend on the child's personality, you know, and the type of bullying, how I would handle it. It's a really complicated thing. I think you're right in the respect of, you have to find out, you have to first acknowledge it because some parents, they just are in denial. They do not wanna believe that their child would ever do that. Susie says, Janice hit me, she hits me every day. Well, Janice would never do that. Susie would never do that. She'd never receive such things. She'd never give such things. That's the parent talking. Like my child would never do that. Or there's the case where the parent says, well, what did you do? What made her, what did you do to make her do that? That one. So as a parent though, you have to be accepting that the possibility is there before you even investigate. You won't investigate if you don't even believe that it could happen. Because some parents are like that. They're like, uh-uh. So once you're past that, once you actually believe that this is possible, I feel like you look into it without the kid knowing it. You observe. You become very observant first to see, start seeing with those eyes now, and then you see if it's really what's behind it. I feel like if you don't tell them first, because if you tell them, then they may start acting differently. True, true. Especially if they are a bully, they'll know how to manipulate. Right. So I feel like that's your first step. Being observant, understanding, and then taking the appropriate action. Like you said, depending on the type of bullying that's happening. If it is indeed happening, depending on the type. But yeah, the first thing I do is accept it, the possibility of such, and then observe it without saying anything so that their behavior doesn't change. Right, right, all right. Well, let's go to another question. So what's the right thing to teach, you know, young kids about responding to bullies? I mean, what would you teach them so that they aren't bullied, that they're kind, productive members of society? Okay, so I got a lot to say about this one. What you teach your kids and how you respond, it depends on the type of bullying that they're receiving. If they're receiving physical bullying, I always say that first, if somebody's hitting you, you do not. I don't care, honestly, I really don't care what the rules are. You do not take that. You do not take it, period, end of story. You will get your, you know, repercussions later. But you do not sit there and let them hit you. You fight back every single time, every time. So after that, if you get past that, because that's the big thing, you deal with that, the police, all that physical stuff later. But if it's mental bullying, the only way you have to understand that the only way that your child can be bullied is if they let themselves be bullied. Because I, as a person, say I'm a kid, and you're a kid in the same class, I can say anything I want. Period. End of story. But if you don't care, if what my words say have no power to you, it will make absolutely no difference to you. But if you care about what I say, oh my gosh, she's got on that pink jacket. I want one too. She told me I can't have one. You know, if you care about that, then it's going to affect you. So that's the first thing I'm gonna teach. I'm gonna do my, cause some kids it's really hard to accept that. So you really have to start this early. You really have to let them know that what other kids say should be taken with a grain of salt. And how you relay that to your child depends of course on your child's personality. Mm-hmm, right. Well, I feel similar. I don't think anyone ever knows the right thing, but I think my approach would be to ignore the bully, with the exception, of course, of physical interactions. But you can't feed into it. Bullies gain their power when they see that their tactics are working. So the more they see it affects you, the more they're going to do it. I think. It's not an easy thing for a child to just ignore a bully. But I'd recommend they have to find a way to separate themselves in their reactions to the bully as much as possible. And there is times, there are times when you have to stand up to a bully, but every situation is different. There's something called this very popular type of bully. It's called bully victim. And these are the bullies who were victims themselves. So they gain power and control in their lives by bullying other people. It's kind of like a way to retaliate for the pain they've experienced. And I think it's really important to be aware of this type of bullying and know how to navigate that conversation with a child. You know what what's happened to them that they're acting that way. I just don't think kids have the emotional development you know to really fully understand how to handle bullies and I think that's where parents really need to be aware of what's going on with the child and know when something's off. I agree that the kids do not have that understanding as of yet but kids I find that kids are really good with direction and given tasks so that's why I feel like if you start younger like don't wait until they're being bullied you know if they have that in their upbringing if they have the defense mechanism that you've instilled upon them, then when that comes up and if that comes up, it may never come up. But if that does come up, they'll be like, oh, okay. They'll know what to do or at least have an idea of what to do and when to bring it up to you. Cause then they're not confused. They're like, hmm, Sally's doing this mommy, Sally's doing this. She's doing kind of what you said, you know, and then they'll have a conversation with that. And they'll kind of be armed and equipped a little bit. So you really can't wait, I feel like, until the situation happens. It's kind of got to be in your conversation prior to. Right, yeah. And it goes back to observing. Like you said, you really have to know, you know, what's going on. So let's go to another question. So when you, you know, when you're a young girl, you know, what, what being bullied by a girl versus being bullied by a boy, what's the difference there? I found that the difference there, if someone was challenging me, whether it was a boy or a girl, I did react pretty much the same way. I never had the mean girl type of bullying, whereas because you got, I didn't care. I didn't care if Sally wore whatever she wore, I don't give a crap. But... I was really the type that was, I remember this boy and I didn't remember that I hurt him so bad, okay? But later on, like I had seen him later in life and he remembered that I knocked him down a hill. And when he said it, then I remembered, but I think you have to treat them the same way. And I feel like there wasn't really a difference. I think, because all the bullying type was the same for me. It wasn't, and I know what you mean as far as like that. I think of that Mean Girl movie, you know, how the girls are like all prissy and separate and like that kind of thing, whereas the boys are all, like that never happened. There was no separation like that. If they were picking on you, they were picking on you. You know, they just found a reason, whatever it was. So for me, it was all in the same category. So I treated everyone that same way. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of feel similar. I mean, you know me, I like to resort to research. So, you know, research said that females are more like you said the mean girl kind of, they call it relational aggression. So that's more of like emotional bullying. And man like they engage in more physical bullying. But I mean, you've seen, most of us have seen the movie Mean Girls, where it's just the backstabbing, the cliques, you know, making some, you know, making fun of someone for how they look. I can agree that this happened, you know, to me. I don't know that I ever really got bullied by a boy per se. If I did, I think it was they picked on me, like when they were in a group together and they were trying to look cool, you know, but I don't think I was ever bullied, you know, or isolated by a boy, I just, usually the girls were in packs too. Like they didn't really come up to you and just bully you. You know, it's, but I think that's also part of like that age group, you know, they do, you know, you do things together a lot. So. They do, they do. I just, I found it is one of those things where when kids got together and they did have cliques, you know, there was, you kind of knew who was gonna sit at what lunch table. Do you know what I mean? Cause they sat together all the time, you know, that kind of thing. So I feel like when kids got together and the boys now back in my school, boys and girls did sit together. Like it wasn't separate. So if this pack was talking about somebody, all of them were talking about somebody boy or girl. Do you know what I mean? So it wasn't really separate, like that, like the first time I ever saw even a whole circle of like girls dancing together was I was visiting another school. I was just like that's not a thing. You dance with a boy, like you don't, all these girls were dancing together. I'm like no, but it was a thing. It was a thing. So. We didn't really have that separation in the environment that I grew up in and I grew up in inner city schools and we didn't have that separation. You know, and we're, I think about it this way, our perspective is from us as women. You know, I don't know how men interact or boys interact, you know, with the bullying to each other, but I would assume it's like the research says. It's probably a lot more physical aggression. Yes, yes it is. And now in my time growing up, physical aggression and mental aggression were basically in the same because you know what, if you were too mental, if you got on my nerves too much, guess what? I'm meeting you at the playground at three after school. So it's gonna turn into that. And everybody knows that there's gonna be a fight at three after school. So. And I feel like that was a time when it was safe to fight. Like it was a victor and there was a loser and you moped for a few days or whatever. And then there was the next fight and then it was over. Like that kind of thing. So it was hashed out, it was over and that was it. Yep. No, I agree. Things are different now, as we know. Well, while we're talking about that, let's talk about how technology has changed bullying. So I mean, let's face it, it's changed basically everything about bullying. I mean, we can hide behind the screen, a fake profile and just hurt others. And I think social media is a breeding ground for this. And the way I look at it is we like to showcase our best selves on social media. And it's, it's obviously easy for us to get jealous of others, you know, because we're always showing our perfect life right and we compare you know and I think that can lead to a lot of self-loathing you know and I think that's a big part of why younger folks um engage in this like really negative behavior online and others just trash people because they can they troll because they can you know but the more popular you are Oftentimes more hate you get, you know, in the online world. It's almost the opposite of what it was like, you know, face-to-face interaction. Because you're right, they have that screen to hide behind. Half the things people say online, they would not say to your face because when they get up off the floor, they would see that's the thing. They're hiding back there, but you know what? Go ahead. Like, you know I'm a Gen Xer, you gonna get up off the floor. And that's what we did. But... The things that people think about, they have too much time to be thinking about these things. A lot of times the trollers, they are, they're on social media way too much. They don't have a lot of time to spend with their families. They much rather spend their time online. Like they're eating, they're eating with their cell phones. Like they're literally eating with, like they can't put it down. It's very sad actually. Yeah. It’s very sad. So these people, they, it does make for the perfect environment, I will say that, the perfect environment to talk bad about someone. Rarely do you find someone lifting someone up because they did such a good job or, you know, that's about three to one. Right, right. Whereas that could also be used for good, you know, but it is like three to one. So I think the person who is trolling online is just something that they have too much time on their hands. And usually that same person, their income is very low. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, there is a lot of research about that. Yeah. Their income is very low. That troll, they try to down someone else because they don't have a lot. No, it's true. It's true, very much so. If there's a lot we could say about the technology side. So we'll talk about what we're seeing. So Anna, who was on the podcast before in our aging episode, she writes a column for my company and it's called Hot Take. And a few weeks ago, she wrote a column about why teenagers should not be on social media. So as many of us know, some parents are suing social media companies in response to teenagers who committed suicide. As a result of being on social media. So in her column, she formulates a theory that today's internet has, I'm quoting her, melded the reality between life and online content, leading vulnerable populations like teenagers to take the branding tactics of social media marketing and apply them to themselves and their sense of self. So she cites research that articulates how teenagers are so inundated with social media, but they now see the world as a foundation upon which to build content not actually live in. So there's this intertwined nature between self and the internet. So very interesting stuff. Vixen, what do you think? Should teenagers be on social media? Well, here's the thing, they should be, but here's the problem with that. I feel like a lot of parents are not taking responsibility. You know, who's paying for that internet? Who's paying for that cell phone? Who's paying for that computer? Who's paying for the tablet, right? It's usually not the teenager, it's usually the parent. So you give them these things and you're like saying, oh, here you go, do what you want now. No guidance. No, half the time they don't even know who half their friends are. That's a deal that I had. I remember you could be on there, but I had to be your friend. You couldn't block me. I had to be able to see all the friends and anytime that I requested that I wanted to see, you know, conversations or whatever, I was able to do that. And if not, there was problem. So parents are not involved. I mean, yes, the social media companies and the networks and all these, they can do their best, but they are not you. They are not there to raise your child. They are not there. That content that your child's seeing, maybe your child shouldn't be seeing. You know. That's your responsibility. As a parent, you cannot blame someone else for that. That is all you. Yeah. I mean, the algorithms and things like that, that push content, you know, to be seen, they know what they're doing. But I agree with you. It is, it is the parents responsibility. And a lot of them, I mean, they give them these electronic devices and that's their babysitting tool. You know, they're not. Absolutely. So while we're talking about that, you know, one thing that we're seeing too, you know, you can limit content. Comments on certain posts and things, you know, you can even filter and censor certain words so that if that word's used, you're not going to see it, it's not going to publish. An example would be Kim Kardashian’s daughter, North, she has a TikTok and she posts regularly, but she has all the comments turned off. So, you know, this is what the public assumes to protect her from bullying and people commenting. Personally, I work in social media. I think turning off comments defeats the purpose of social media. However, in this case, when a child is involved, especially a celebrity, it's a necessary measure. I don’t think that the comments should be turned off. I think because you can't hide from the world. If you wanted to hide from the world, then you probably shouldn't be on social media at all. Do you know what I mean? I think it's a time when you can filter that or you can look with them, you know, and explain to them what is happening. I've called it teachable moments because there are, I agree totally with filtering words, you know, and then that helps with the comments and that sort of thing. They don't need to see that. But, um, turning them all off. Because you can't turn off the world when you're out at a restaurant. You can't filter what that guy says about you. So you need to know how to react to that guy saying something about you. Or to you. Do you know what I mean? So you can't filter out the world or you shouldn't filter out the world, filter out certain things, you know, but you should be, again, that parent should be a parent. And if you don't have time to do that, then back off their time that they're on there. Cause like you said, it shouldn't be a babysitting tool. And you know what? There are tons of books to read, tons. I agree. I think there's a lot of different elements to this particular case. So by the way, I just googled it North West, that's her name. She's 10 years old. You know, I mean, well, we think teenagers shouldn’t be on social media, I mean, 10 years old, that's still really young. So, I don't know how teachable moments, how many you can have when you have kids that are eight, nine, ten on social media. Like it's still very young, but I agree, you know, as you get older and they start to learn their interactions more in teenagers and that's a little different. And we're also talking about a celebrity. So it's like, there's just, it's just a very different, you know, scenario. I think it's great that she's on it and her mom is active in the account. So that's good. It gives her that opportunity for that freedom to still be able to do things like everybody else. But you have to shelter her a little bit. Yeah. I agree with you. It's different because she's famous. You know, she's not going to get the normal amount of comments. She's probably, she probably would get like a ton crap load, basically of comments, all different kinds, you know, because she's famous. But, um, for the regular 10 year old, I definitely think, yeah, my comments basically for a regular 10 year old, but I definitely think that the parents and I'm noticing that actually across the board that the parents are not as involved in their upbringing and they're doing this crazy thing. Are you noticing this too? Where parents are letting their children make their own decisions. Meaning, and I don't mean like what to wear. I mean like real decisions. Yeah, I know what you're saying. They're making them become adults. Exactly, exactly. And then, of course, half the time they're making the wrong decisions. But that's what they do because they're 10. You know, they're not, you can, I used to call it, okay, we're going to practice adulting today. That's what I'd say. And then I'd give them the scenario. And then I'd see what they choose. And then we talk about it, if it was the right choice or the wrong choice. So we would practice this. When they were younger as opposed to, because one day, you know, they make these decisions on their own, but they are actually letting them make the actual decisions on their own without a fully developed brain, without, oh, this is what he wants to do. This is what she wants to do. This is what they feel like. What? No. They feel this way because they're 10. That to me is this inexcusable. I mean, it's poor parenting, it's no parenting. You know, and then they're going to blame somebody else when something messes up. Let's blame social media then. So yeah, it's a sad reality. I'm glad we're bringing this issue to the forefront. And, you know, we're going to talk about this more next week. We're going to talk about adult bullying. But in the meantime, for all the people listening, if you have anything you want to be talking about, share it with us, share it on social media so we can, you know, incorporate it into the next podcast and we'd really like to hear from everyone and their experiences. Maybe an ask Rachel or ask Vixen. Alright so Vixen is there anything else you’d like to say about this topic? I’m just saying, my big thing is parents you need to be aware. You need to be aware and be open to the possibility that your child might not be an angel. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I agree with that. I agree with that. I'll mention one thing. So there was a series on Netflix called 13 Reasons Why. A lot of people have heard of it. And the first season was met with so much positive feedback because it really brought to light some issues that are happening. But then the subsequent season is not so much a lot of negative critics. And, you know, the reason being is there was there were things that were happening in that show that people were emulating in schools then. And yeah, so when it comes to stuff like that, you've gotta be able to have that relationship with a child to watch something like this happen and have them really understand the impact that this has. You can't just say, here, go watch some show, watch whatever you want, you know? I mean, it's a really sensitive matter, so. Just something I think everyone needs to be aware of, you know, that this stuff doesn't replace parenting. Social media, television, doesn't replace parenting. Well, thanks everyone for tuning into the Light Her Project Podcast. You can follow the conversation online with our hashtag. So in the meantime, keep it real. Real women. With Real Talk.