My friend and podcast co-host Vixen Divine discuss the topic of adult bullying.
In this episode, we discuss:
Real women, Real talk!
My friend and podcast co-host Vixen Divine discuss the topic of adult bullying.
In this episode, we discuss:
Real women, Real talk!
Welcome to episode 16 of the Light Her Project podcast, Real Women. With real talk. I'm Rachel Strella. and I'm Vixen Divine. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Today's topic is tackling an adult bully. They're out there. We usually start by talking about our personal experiences. So let's discuss our history with adult bullying. For me, I've experienced several instances of bullying from other adults. One that sticks out in my mind is work-related. So my company, we serve a lot of different clients. We have one with several different contacts at their organization. I'm not sure if this gal just didn't like me or she felt threatened by me. but she would undermine me a lot. She would go to other folks in the company and tell them things that she disagreed with as it relates to our work. Instead of just talking to me directly, I would hear from a third party that she was upset. And when I tried to talk to her about it directly, she would just ignore me or brush me off. Whenever we have our monthly meetings with our customers, we ask for feedback, how are things going? You know? She never said anything. So it was disheartening to find out that she would talk about us, you're behind our back. And she would politic with other people over there too. And some of them would be reluctant to work with us. I find that a lot of women are passive aggressive when it comes to bullying like that. And in my scenario where I'm a remote contractor, it makes it so much harder because I can’t just walk right up to that person and confront them, they can easily hide and keep me at bay. That’s what she’s counting on. Yeah. That is exactly what she's counting on. Yes, my experience is actually not work related, but, oh, well, you know, I do have one that's work related. So I'll just go with what you're saying. I've had, and it's coincidental, could have been a woman, I guess, in the same scenario, but it was a man who tried to bully me with their positions. As I'm relating in this instance, I'm a massage therapist that day. I'm doing massage therapy in that instance. And because even though massage therapists take certain education to do that, I think a lot of jobs take certain education. And I will get particularly doctors who will try to... try to bully me, like tell me basically, I don't know what I'm talking about and you know that sort of thing. So I really have to stay on my ground and let them know that I am, I am in this room, I am the one that you listen to. So I have to stand up to that and I've learned to do that quite well actually. But yeah, I get that where and I still get that where and I don't know if it is because it's men but it generally... is men when I'm in a environment, because in my practice I serve only women, but I have been in practices where we serve, you know, everybody doesn't matter, but it's only been men that have been trying to bully me like, you don't know what you're talking about, like, shut up. And I'm like, oh no no, not here, not now, not ever. Interesting. I've read a lot of cases where superiors, you know, can easily bully their subordinates, you know, and that makes sense. But why would somebody feel threatened by you? Like, that's what I don't understand. You're just there to do a job. Why would a doctor feel the need to bully you? It doesn't make any sense to me. Well, they feel, I don't know if you remember, remember I talked about that middle money? Yes! Okay, so for those who are listening, who have not listened to previous podcasts, go listen to previous podcasts. But middle money, I think that's what that's about. They try to make other people feel small. We're all in the medical field, these, we're all in the medical field, but I am at a lower position than they are, so they're trying to make me feel smaller. I know what I'm doing. It's really hard to do that for me because I know what I'm doing. I can toe to toe with you. And so in that case, because I'm that way, I think I'm better at defending myself in that respect, but they think that they can, and in their office, they're used to pushing people around because they're the boss in their office. They've got these nurses, they've got the front desk staff, they got, not here. No, that makes sense. I mean, you're right. You're right. I mean, I'm sorry that happened to you though. So let's go to some questions here. So one question that we have is, what is the best way to handle an adult bully, especially in a scenario that's a little more difficult, such as a family member or coworker? So I actually handle these two things differently. And both are super challenging because of their complexity. So I have a friend who has a sister-in-law who's a real troublemaker. She likes to stir up drama, cause problems for people, especially if she doesn't get everything that she wants. And it blows my mind why her family just doesn't stand up to her. Well, I realized after a while that they're all just terrified of her. They don't want the tables turned on them, if they go against her. So that's why they don't stand up. She uses fear to get away with despicable things and none of them are beneficial to anybody except her for the record. So I know it's hard, you know, in this case, you know, but I don't know that I would, I would not just remain silent because one person is a bully. That only feeds their fear. That is a great trait to have. When you see something, it's true. When you see something, say something. Yeah! Because bullies, they tend to thrive on the fact that people are scared of them and no one's going to challenge them. Right, right. Well, and in this case, you know, anytime we did challenge, it would like be, she'd come down double time. Like it would just be, it's so crazy, but it happens. As far as a coworker, so there's often office politics at play, you know, especially with women, because there can be a high level of cattiness. I find that most workplace bullies are insecure in their job, so they tear others down to make themselves feel superior, you know, or justify their shortcomings. It's all about control. But my advice here would probably be a little bit different. Like, unless this person is causing serious damage, and that can be the case. But I found it's easier just to play nice, meaning keep your friends close and your enemies closer in a situation like this. Humor them. Be their friend. You know, confrontation can be really tricky in a workplace, and it could trigger more issues. Again, politics, you know? But every workplace is different. I find another tactic is always helpful to strengthen your network of people at work, whoever can be your allies. You have to be careful and I call them frenemies at work. You can have, you have to understand and know who your frenemies are and who your friends are if you even have any, you know. Some people just are nice to you to find things out so they can spread things around about you or just enough to add their own little spin and spread that around. So you have to actually know who's in your best interest as opposed to who is actually, you know, talking to you because sometimes talking to you doesn't really matter. Right. It’s really what their intentions are, 100% what their intentions are. So I find at work though, if you know that, if you know the differences between those two, I think you're pretty much in the clear because you're going to limit what you say around the frenemy. Right, right. You’re gonna limit even your time around them when youhave that frenemy. So as opposed to someone who actually genuinely is in your best interest. Whereas, so that's, that can easily, if you know that information, I think you can easily navigate that in your workplace. Now, in that family situation, I find avoidance to be the best tactic. Mm-hmm. Because, I'm not quiet where I will really, I can, I can start a fight. You know, it's, it's just best if I just don't say anything, just maybe a hi. Maybe that's it. I can go all day and look right past you and not say a word. That I can do that. No problem. I am petty that way. Okay, so what if they're bullying another family member, or something like that? Okay, so if they're bullying another family member, I'm gonna step in. Okay. Yeah, I'm not, no, no. Then I'm gonna step in. But I mean, if they were bullying me, like if they were trying to bully me, like you don't exist, like you don't need to exist. There is nothing that I need from you. That makes sense. That's good. Not everybody can do that. But if I'm gonna defend you, if I see someone getting picked on like bullying, like I see this and I let it go once to see if it like a one-time thing. But if I see that this is going, you know, you keep picking on that cousin, no, we gonna have to have to talk. We gonna have to, no, that's it. That's not happening. Mm-hmm. And that's something we're gonna cover in our next question in a little bit here. So question is it's a combo question. You know, what do you think is the distinction between someone just trying to be funny? And then they're taking it too far and becomes bullying and what about the distinction between bullying and people who are just being rude? Well, that's the thing. It's a one, if someone's just trying to be funny, if they're playing a joke, you know, then they're not gonna continuously do it. It's a joke that they try to do that obviously wasn't good, but they try to do it one time, you know, that's it. They attempted, it didn't work out, you know, and it's over. It becomes bullying when it's intentional multiple occasions. because then they know what the outcome, see the first time when they did it, they weren't sure what the outcome was gonna be. They're trying to be funny and so-and-so didn't think so. But when now they know what the outcome is, so if they're continuing to do it, so they know what the outcome is gonna be, and now it's intentional to get that outcome, that's when it becomes a bully. That make sense. What about being rude? Would you say it's the same thing? No, I don't think bullying and being rude. Being rude to me is just someone with disregard for your feelings for something. They're just probably more about themselves, that kind of thing. So I wouldn't say that was bullying. Bullying to me is an intent to have a certain outcome that's a negative, seriously negative for the other person. I totally agree with you. The funny thing, it's passive aggressive. Like it's not funny, it's hurtful. There's a scene in show that I'm watching and the mother constantly picks on her adult daughter. She calls her Dumbo, fatass. And when the daughter gets upset, she's like, don't be so sensitive. I'm just kidding with you. No, she's not. She knows it upsets her and she's inflicting pain, which is classic bully behavior right there. The people thing I agree with you, like some people just don't even realize they're being rude or like maybe they're having a bad day. You know, there's nothing about you. But like you said, if they're intentional, you know, repeated, that's when it becomes bullying. Right, if we had called her, you know, a dumbo, and then like for the first time, and then the daughter didn't like it, and she's like, oh, you know, and she doesn't do that again, because now she knows that the daughter doesn't like it. But she does it anyway, knowing that her daughter doesn't like it. That's the difference. Yep. She's gonna get a reaction out of her. Mm-hmm. All right. So number three, what safeguards or boundaries should exist to prevent cancel culture from turning into a vehicle for bullying? So. For those of you who aren't aware of what this means, I thought we should define that. It's basically a call out culture. So what they're trying to do is remove or cancel people, whether they be a group, an individual, an organization, due to an action that they find objectable. So they're calling them out. And those that are being canceled are typically, it's done usually on social media because they can magnify that public knowledge, you know. Celebrities, political leaders, they're usually targets of this. So, huh, you know, while it allows for some sense of accountability, it's also just online bullying, you know, when you think about it. And the irony to me is that I think it actually caused more damage than the offense being called out. So I don't know that this tactic would bring any real like social change. It's just leveraging social media to cause damage. So, you know, how do you prevent that? Like for thing that I would say is, um, don't believe everything that you see. You know, it's so easy for something to go viral and then you take it. You know, for what it is and don't jump on the bandwagon too. Like that's the other thing. Like I see that all the time. Just because everybody else is doing it. Well, they haven't looked up the facts. Like jumping on the bandwagon, they're assuming that what Sally Sue said is correct. Mm-hmm You know, so we're in a culture now where a lot of it is you're guilty before you actually have the facts. You have that snippet of things that have happened. Now, there are things that are absolutely terrible. You know, that people have done that, okay, like something terrible to a child, yet, you know, they're a choir director. Get them from around people, you know. That's something like, you know, that's something that takes immediate action that needs to be done right now. But most of the things are not, you know, not something that needs to be taken care of right now. It really could take time. And there are two sides to every story. That's the other thing. you're seeing this video or hearing this person talk, and it's usually, unless you see, unless this video is showing me specifically writing this hate, whatever thing, like I am doing it, and you can see me doing it, like there's two sides, like that is a definite thing, what you just saw just there, but most of the time it's something I said, well, why did I say it? What did so-and-so say? You know that. Was it a reaction, or was it really a hateful thing that I said? Yeah. You know? So there are two sides to every story. So I agree with you as far as stop jumping on the bandwagon because maybe what Sally said wasn't true. Maybe Sally didn't know what she was saying wasn't true because she heard it from Jill. That I think the problem is people don't rationally think, you know, because sometimes it's just about what they feel is true to them. Like, whatever fits their narrative. You know, and people can go on social media and tell a one-sided story. And it puts power in the hands of the wrong people. I know somebody who came to me, she was referred to me from a client because, um, her employer fired her saying she made a racist comment and not only did he fire her, he sent out a letter to all of the, um, the people at that agency. He posted on social media about it. Um, and she was just beside herself because the context when she explained it to me was completely different than how he was framing it, you know, and the fact that he went on social, she had so much trouble trying to find another job because of this. Like it's just awful what people can do. It is, and that's what I was talking about. Was it a true thing or was it a reaction? What did the other person say? Like that kind of thing. And the racist, you know, and antisemitic things that are happening right now, you really need to hear the whole story. Sometimes, or sometimes a person just needs to be educated, especially the older people. Sometimes they really don't know. Like they don't, they're not trying to be racist. Like this is just how they were brought up. Right. This is the terms that they think that they should be using. Whereas now, if someone tells them differently, they would, you know, adapt to such things. But so, remember to talk about intention. It is about intention because that is everything. That is, that is everything. Intention, intention, intention. Totally, totally agree with you. Yep. All right, so how can you confront someone who is displaying bullying behavior? Well, okay, I know it depends on where they are. If they are displaying bullying behavior as an adult, and this is somewhere locally, I prefer to confront them face to face. Because back in the day, we didn't have all the, this is what you did. We didn't have social media that I hide behind. You gave them a call, you went to their house, you went to wherever they hung out. You know, I know Jill's gonna be at such and such tonight. Okay, I'm gonna go there because we need to talk about this. I'm gonna confront her. But in this day of social media, if someone's bullying you online, that's where you just have to leave it because... You're not going to Indiana if you live in Pennsylvania. Just to talk, that's not worth it. That's weird. So in that case, I would just have a dialogue back and forth. If they're not reasonable, usually within, I can figure it out within the first few back and forth if they're going to be reasonable or not. See, there's a point when you have to know that you're just wasting your time. No matter what you say. And to that point, to that point, if that kind of person is the person you're talking to, you have to understand that they don't matter. Their value goes way down. Because if they're gonna act like that, they don't have the sense God gave them. And so you need to devalue, if you had value to that person, their value just went way down. So it doesn't really matter at this point. So now they block them. Whatever you need to do to get them out of your life, because nope, you don't need that. You do not need that. You have to understand that is not part of your narrative. Mm. I wonder how many bullies are reasonable. Have you been in a situation where you confronted a bully and they were reasonable and it resolved the issue? Actually, yes. Good. I had a bully who I confronted her, and her issue with me wasn't valid. She just didn't know it wasn't valid. If she would have just, we would have just talked it out in the first place, like none of it would have happened. So that was the thing. Logic. You can tell when someone can process things. Some people are just stuck on it. They've got this thing in their mind. They're just going to be stuck on it. And if they're going to be stuck on it, then there's no talking to them. There's no reason for them. Just bye, that kind of thing. But sometimes, like in this situation, it was actually a misconception. It was just, she thought one thing was happening when it really wasn't. Okay. Okay, well it's good that she stood corrected then. Yeah, so it was fine. And after that, you know, I mean, we weren't friends, but we just didn't bother with one another. It was fine. So I'm going to go a little bit more granular in what you just said. As far as confronting a bully, my husband and I, we've been going therapy together, basically our whole marriage. We think it's just a positive thing to do, more dealing with like aging parents and whatever's going on in our personal lives. And my therapist had us read a book about narcissism and dealing with different personalities. And she gave us advice, and it's kind of like three tiers of what you do. So when you're confronting someone like this, it's a I statement. And it’s three points. So first you express your feeling in that I see I am feeling whatever that is. And then you express what you want with whatever that outcome or action is, another I statement, then you actually lead them to the next step or timeframe. So this I statement thing, it actually eliminates pointing the finger, like putting that person in a position where they're feeling like you're accusing them. And that's going to have them fly off right away, they're going to poke the bear. So it’s better to talk in first person and be clear about what you want. So I feel uncomfortable when and I would like XYZ to occur and I will whatever that outcome is. And I think that's a great way to handle things because it puts the burden on you not back on them where it's more likely to be inflammatory. That makes sense. Yeah, that does make sense. Because when you approach them, actually, they're already defensive. You don't have to say a word. As soon as you approach them, they are defensive because they don't know what you're going to say and they assume it's going to be bad, which is probably true. But so they're already on the defensive. So that would help to defuse the situation prior to, you know, it's like, oh, Okay, she's nicer than I thought she was gonna be. You know, that kind of takes them back a little bit. Yes, it keeps it from escalating unnecessarily. It really does. And sometimes that still doesn't work, but it works a lot better than the alternative, you know. Well, if it doesn't work, I will say this, if it doesn't work, just walk away. Just walk, if you're in the in-person situation, if you're talking with them, like things don't go well, just walk away. Over, done with, remember now, you've tried to be reasonable. That didn't work out apparently. Bye. Yeah, yeah. I think some bullies can be a little psychotic, you know, like they don't tolerate, they don't like the fact that you ignored them now. Oh yeah I can ignore you really well. And that's more difficult, you know, because then they retaliate even worse. They don't like it. They let they respond to the fear that you're giving them. And if you don't give that to us, sometimes that bothers them too. So. Yeah, I've heard the phrase, you are dead to me. Have you ever heard that phrase? Yeah, okay. So yeah, that is the phrase that you can use. Now, I want people to know that if any of this ever gets physical, that is a whole different podcast. Like that is not what we are talking about. We're talking about over the internet, things that you're not touching anyone, people are not touching you. Okay, so that's what we're talking about. I just want to clarify. I’m glad you made that distinction. So we have time for maybe one thing that we're seeing. There is a girl that's on TikTok and she talks about her experience with hate comments. And as we just talked about bullying is like so popular online because people can hide behind that screen, you know, and they don't think their actions have any consequences. You know, influencers, content creators, celebrities, you know, they face it a lot. And it's, you know, I've had videos that went viral, and it’s rare that one viral video would not have at least one hate comment. And I know from my video, it had almost a million views, and I probably had 30% of the comments really negative, but I expected that was gonna happen. What I like about what she says is, when people go online and they bully like that, it shows more about them than it does about you. You know, the person that they're commenting. So bullying, it's not a bragging right. Like, I don't know why people would, she called it a flex. I've never heard that before, but it makes sense. It's not a flex, it's not a bragging right. It's nothing to be proud of. It's a weakness. I'll go with you on that. A weakness in the respect where, first of all, why do you have that much time? You know? Why do you have that much time? Why are you that interested in doing that? What kind of life do you have? What does that say about you? Would you not rather be snuggling with your loved one or even with your cat for heaven's sakes? You know, would you rather be, don't you have to go to the grocery store? Don't you have to go to work or some kind of income, something like don't. How do you have time for all of this? So that probably says if you have that much time for you, someone else to be in your life, take up that much space in your brain. First of all, that makes me feel very important. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. But I can do that to you with no effort at all. With no effort at all. Second of all. You live a really sad life that you have that much time to be able to, you need a hobby. Yes. No, it's very true. I think these people don't have a life. They just get online troll all day and that gives them some sort of sick power. Yeah, get a job or do something productive. Something! Well, we're coming to the end of this podcast, Vixen. Is there anything else you'd like to add about this topic? No, I think we pretty much covered it. I will say though, if someone does physically start to hurt you or your family, don't try to take that on. Go ahead, I mean, don't get me wrong, defend yourself. If it's to that point, like, oh, you don't start it, but you finish it, okay, in that respect. But go to the police, go to the authority, go to your teacher, like make sure someone knows because, that's a whole different level that you don't want to be in. Right, absolutely. And once you go down that road, it's really hard to go back. Like if you allow that kind of behavior, it's gonna continue. Yeah, there's never in that case, there's never a oh, he was having a bad day or she was having a bad-- No, because what if they have another bad day? You know, it's not like I said physical that's something else because that can really get you hurt or killed. So you really need to take care of that immediately. No forgiveness in that you let somebody know take care of that Well, this was a great topic. I want to thank everyone for tuning in to the Light Her Project podcast. You can follow the conversation online with our hashtag. In the meantime, keep it real. Real women. With real talk.